Rattigan350, the WT said (in one of their WT's or some other publication of theirs) that the creative days were 7,000 years long, that 6,000 years of human history would be reached in the year 1975, and that it would be appropriate for Christ's 1,000 year reign to begin in 1975, such that at the end of the 1,000 years the 7th creative day (of 7,000 years duration) would end, at which point Christ would turn over the kingdom to Jehovah God. With that line of reasoning Armageddon would have to have ended by some time in 1975, since its end (according to Revelation) precedes the abyssing of Satan for 1,000 years.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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Help with 1975 please
by jhine ini answered a question on quora about jw flip flops .
i mentioned, amongst other things , the 1975 debacle.
how witnesses were told that armageddon was coming in the fall of that year.
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Disillusioned JW
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Science news articles supporting biological evolution, including by discoveries of fossils
by Disillusioned JW in"a billion-year-old fossil of an organism, exquisitely preserved in the scottish highlands, reveals features of multicellularity nearly 400 million years before the biological trait emerged in the first animals, according to a new report in the journal current biology by an international team of researchers, including boston college paleobotanist paul k. strother.." see https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/528947 and https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/billion-year-old-fossil-reveals-missing-link-evolution-animals for details.. the first article listed above says the following.. "the microfossil, discovered at loch torridon, contains two distinct cell types and could be the earliest example of complex multicellularity ever recorded, according to the researchers.
the fossil offers new insight into the transition of single celled organisms to complex, multicellular animals.
modern single-celled holozoa include the most basal living animals and the fossil discovered shows an organism which lies somewhere between single cell and multicellular animals, or metazoa.".
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Disillusioned JW
Fisherman, are you saying I made a misquote, or are you perhaps making a joke?
My quote was by copy and paste of the EurekAlert! article, thus I did not make a typo regarding the "400 million" years. Furthermore, Earth is dated to about 4.6 billion (billion in the sense of thousand million) years old and the universe is currently dated to about 13.8 billion year old, thus there is no way the fossil could be 400 trillion years old.
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Science news articles supporting biological evolution, including by discoveries of fossils
by Disillusioned JW in"a billion-year-old fossil of an organism, exquisitely preserved in the scottish highlands, reveals features of multicellularity nearly 400 million years before the biological trait emerged in the first animals, according to a new report in the journal current biology by an international team of researchers, including boston college paleobotanist paul k. strother.." see https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/528947 and https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/billion-year-old-fossil-reveals-missing-link-evolution-animals for details.. the first article listed above says the following.. "the microfossil, discovered at loch torridon, contains two distinct cell types and could be the earliest example of complex multicellularity ever recorded, according to the researchers.
the fossil offers new insight into the transition of single celled organisms to complex, multicellular animals.
modern single-celled holozoa include the most basal living animals and the fossil discovered shows an organism which lies somewhere between single cell and multicellular animals, or metazoa.".
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Disillusioned JW
"Scientists in Egypt have identified a new species of four-legged whale that lived around 43 million years ago." See https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-58340807 and https://www.npr.org/2021/08/27/1031659020/four-legged-whale-legs-discovered-43-million-years for details.
The BBC article provides the following historical background. "The first whales are thought to have first evolved in South Asia around 50 million years ago. In 2011, a team of palaeontologists in Peru discovered a 43-million-year-old whale fossil with four legs, webbed feet and hooves."
The NPR article says the following.
"A team led by Egyptian scientists have dug up a 43 million-year-old fossil in the Sahara Desert in Egypt of a now-extinct amphibious four-legged whale.
That's right, folks — a whale with legs. ...
"We discovered how fierce and deadly its powerful jaws are capable of tearing a wide range of prey ... this whale was a god of death to most of the animals that lived in its area," Abdullah Gohar, one of the scientists, told Insider.
The new whale is called Phiomicetus anubis, which the scientists named in part after Anubis, the canine-headed Egyptian god associated with mummification and the afterlife. It was likely a top predator at the time, similar to what a killer whale is today.
Whales, it turns out, used to be "herbivorous, deer-like terrestrial mammals," the scientists write. Over the span of about 10 million years, whales turned into carnivorous creatures in the ocean. The discovery of the four-legged creature is part of that evolution."
See also https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/science/fossil-previously-unknown-four-legged-whale-found-egypt-2021-08-25/ . It says the following.
'CAIRO, Aug 25 (Reuters) - Scientists said on Wednesday they had discovered the 43 million-year-old fossil of a previously unknown amphibious four-legged whale species in Egypt that helps trace the transition of whales from land to sea.
The newly discovered whale belongs to the Protocetidae, a group of extinct whales that falls in the middle of that transition, the Egyptian-led team of researchers said in a statement.
Its fossil was unearthed from middle Eocene rocks in the Fayum Depression in Egypt's Western Desert -- an area once covered by sea that has provided a rich seam of discoveries showing the evolution of whales -- before being studied at Mansoura University Vertebrate Palaeontology Centre (MUVP).
... With rocks covering about 12 million years, discoveries in the Fayum Depression "range from semiaquatic crocodile-like whales to giant fully aquatic whales", said Mohamed Sameh of the Egyptian Environmental Affairs Agency, a co-author.'
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Science news articles supporting biological evolution, including by discoveries of fossils
by Disillusioned JW in"a billion-year-old fossil of an organism, exquisitely preserved in the scottish highlands, reveals features of multicellularity nearly 400 million years before the biological trait emerged in the first animals, according to a new report in the journal current biology by an international team of researchers, including boston college paleobotanist paul k. strother.." see https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/528947 and https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/billion-year-old-fossil-reveals-missing-link-evolution-animals for details.. the first article listed above says the following.. "the microfossil, discovered at loch torridon, contains two distinct cell types and could be the earliest example of complex multicellularity ever recorded, according to the researchers.
the fossil offers new insight into the transition of single celled organisms to complex, multicellular animals.
modern single-celled holozoa include the most basal living animals and the fossil discovered shows an organism which lies somewhere between single cell and multicellular animals, or metazoa.".
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Disillusioned JW
"A billion-year-old fossil of an organism, exquisitely preserved in the Scottish Highlands, reveals features of multicellularity nearly 400 million years before the biological trait emerged in the first animals, according to a new report in the journal Current Biology by an international team of researchers, including Boston College paleobotanist Paul K. Strother.." See https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/528947 and https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/billion-year-old-fossil-reveals-missing-link-evolution-animals for details.
The first article listed above says the following.
"The microfossil, discovered at Loch Torridon, contains two distinct cell types and could be the earliest example of complex multicellularity ever recorded, according to the researchers.
The fossil offers new insight into the transition of single celled organisms to complex, multicellular animals. Modern single-celled holozoa include the most basal living animals and the fossil discovered shows an organism which lies somewhere between single cell and multicellular animals, or metazoa."
The second article listed above says the following.
' “We have found a primitive spherical organism made up of an arrangement of two distinct cell types, the first step towards a complex multicellular structure, something which has never been described before in the fossil record.
“The discovery of this new fossil suggests to us that the evolution of multicellular animals had occurred at least one billion years ago and that early events prior to the evolution of animals may have occurred in freshwater like lakes rather than the ocean.” '
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A bit of history ... for you history buffs
by RR ini wasn't sure where to post this.
not sure why i'm posting this.
it's only going to add fuel to the fire.
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Disillusioned JW
What I like most about the Here and Hereafter or Man in Life and Death book is that it discusses the philosophy called materialism (that every thing consists of matter or is a characteristic of such) and that it proves that animals have thoughts and emotions, and that thoughts and emotions (including those of humans) arise from the actions of organized matter in brains.
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Evolution News: Humanlike Footprints in Crete Dated to 6 Million Years Ago!
by Disillusioned JW ini find it astonishing that humanlike feet could have existed that long ago.
i wonder if some non-human upright ape might have had that kind of feet that long ago.
see https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/humanlike-footprints-in-crete-dated-to-6-million-years-muddle-archaeologists-1.10301706 and https://scitechdaily.com/oldest-footprints-of-pre-humans-identified-in-crete-six-million-years-old/ .
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Disillusioned JW
Lava ash can dated radiometrically and thus the impression made in such ash that became hardened can be dated, though the 6 million old footprints (which apparently were not in lava ash) were dated by "geophysical and micropaleontological" methods instead.
I got duped into rejecting evolution and into becoming baptized as a JW partly because I was duped by the WT's arguments against the reliability of carbon dating and other radiometric dating (such as uranium-lead dating and potassium-argon dating). But several years ago I started looking up the WT's quotes of scientists descriptions of radiometric dating and I began reading what other scientific books (as well as encyclopedia articles) said on the subject. I was stunned to see what they say about how reliable it is and how scientists know it is reliable. That caused me to be angry at the WT for twisting what the scientists say about radiometric dating.
Regarding the idea of Big Foot prints, a main problem with them is that they could easily have been made by modern-day humans as hoaxes instead of by a Bigfoot and neither a Bigfoot animal/ape-man nor a fossil of one has ever been found, unlike the case for fossils of ape-men (or at least fossils resembling such).
Simon, are you a young earth creationist?
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Disillusioned JW
neat blue dog, maybe the better analogy with the JW meetings would be the private meetings of the elders and the governing body, rather than the public meetings. Of course only a select few can attend the private meetings. A number of ex-JWs on this site who had been JW elders said their figurative eyes were really opened regarding the JW religion while they were elders.
Folks, in some respects I began noticing problems with the WT teachings when I spoke with some of the local elders and heard their sincere WT based view of certain matters, such as the following:
- submission to all authorities in all cases (other than when they us to do something which the Bible [as interpreted by the WT] forbids) - even if the authority is oppressive;
- slavery being just another form of the employer-employee relationship (and that thus the same biblical NT principles of obedience of a slave to its master apply to modern employees in regards to their employers). Note that least one of my black ancestors were slaves in the USA (when slavery was practiced in the southern USA) and I find slavery to be extremely appalling, including as depicted in the TV miniseries called "Roots" (which I watched when it first aired, and I also read the entire book called Roots [and my father, a white JW, kindly gave to me a Reader's Digest condensed version of the book, without me asking for it]);
- an elder telling me about the letter from the WT to the elders about why the WT was an NGO in affiliation with the UN - stating the unconvincing reason mentioned in the letter;
- application of the NT verse (about anointed Christians will judge angels and thus that disputes between those in the congregations should be handled by the congregational elders) that the WT uses about "why not let yourself be wronged" by a fellow JW, rather the elder taking my side in matter (despite me being convinced I was right in the matter);
- being told that rather than using my unemployment benefits to have enough time to find and obtain a job similar to the one I was laid off from (namely an accounting department job), I should stop collecting unemployment benefits and simply apply for and accept any job (such as a menial low paying one) that I can get (even though a person at the unemployment benefits office said I don't need to do such);
- that if I only spend a couple of hours in field service per month and haven't managed to talk a lot of people into receiving WT literature then something is wrong with me as a JW (rather than that the reason is that people are not interested in WT literature and that they are tired of JWs coming to their door, and that the vast majority of people no longer even bother to answer the door);
- an elder trying to intimidate me (a ministerial servant at the time) into ordering the WT's JW Yearbook (even though the daily text had stopped being included in the Yearbook by that time and even though the Yearbook by that time was no longer used at any Kingdom Hall meetings, even for field service) - a series of books which were always very boring to me, and into ordering me to obtain a video by the WT about the organization (a video which I correctly thought would bore me immensely);
- being told by an elder (since I was a a ministerial servant at the time) to spy on a married woman at night (though from outside in a parked car on the other side of the street from her house) to see if there is WT based grounds of evidence that she is cheating her JW husband (the husband would be along with me in my own car, a car which the woman thus would not recognize) by adultery, with the grounds for evidence being to see if the lights in the house turned off (with the bedroom light turning off last) while a man other than her husband was alone in the house with her;
- etc.
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A bit of history ... for you history buffs
by RR ini wasn't sure where to post this.
not sure why i'm posting this.
it's only going to add fuel to the fire.
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Disillusioned JW
I have a SDA paperback book copyright in 1897 and in reading it I am astonished to see that many of its arguments are exactly the same as used by the WT! The book is by Uriah Smith and is "Berean Library, No. 8" and it is has the title of Here and Hereafter or Man in Life and Death: The Reward of the Righteous and the Destiny of the Wicked. It is published by Review and Herald Publishing Assn. It must be a very old printing since instead of saying "Copyright 1897" it says "Entered, According to Act of Congress, in the year 1897". The book has 357 pages. For example on pages 189 - 193 he says that the English translation of Luke 23:43 should have the comma after the word "to-day" and a number of the reasons he gives for such are exactly the same used by the WT! But, Uriah Smith also gives other arguments, ones not used by the WT, in support of the teaching. To me Smith's book seems much more scholarly and researched than the literature of the WT on the same subject.
The first paragraph of page 127 says the following.
'Because Adam wickedly became a sinner, and brought himself into a state of alienation from God, the doom was pronounced upon him, "thou shalt surely die." Could this mean that he should suffer punishment of eternal death? If so, Adam never could have been released therefrom. But he is to be released from death incurred by his transgression; for "in Christ," the Scriptures assure us, all shall again "be made alive." '
Pages 135 - 136 says regarding Adam the following. "Adam was on probation. Life and death were set before him. ... Immortality was, therefore, not absolute, but contingent. Immortal he might become by obedience to God; disobeying, he was to die. He was not created either mortal or immortal. Which he should be, was to be decided by his own actions."
Page 332 saying regarding promulgating "the doctrine of the destruction of the wicked" that 'some ... go so far as to declare that "it will make more infidels than Paine's 'Age of Reason,' " and that "no conversions to God will ever follow in the track of its blighting and soul-destroying influence." ' In reply, on page 333 Smith says the following.
"So far from being the cause of infidelity, the view we advocate is just what cures infidelity. Whom do we find in the ranks of the friends of this doctrine? Not the criminal and vicious classes, not those who have thrown off all moral and legal restraint, not rejecters of divine revelation; but we find those who were formerly skeptics rescued from their skepticism, and infidels recovered from their infidelity.'
It should also be noted that Rutherford's/Russell's Finished Mystery book has a quote from Smith's book on Daniel and Revelation.
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A bit of history ... for you history buffs
by RR ini wasn't sure where to post this.
not sure why i'm posting this.
it's only going to add fuel to the fire.
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Disillusioned JW
Eventually the SDA church admitted that E. G. White used material from others without attribution (but if the copyright had expired prior to such usage, then such usage was legal and back then copyrights had a much shorter lifespan than they do now). I've read that now the SDA church lists the sources that E. G. White used for her books.
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Science News article: ‘Case closed’: 99.9% of scientists agree climate emergency caused by humans
by Disillusioned JW ina news article has the headline of " ‘case closed’: 99.9% of scientists agree climate emergency caused by humans"; see https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/19/case-closed-999-of-scientists-agree-climate-emergency-caused-by-humans .
the article says in part the following.. 'the scientific consensus that humans are altering the climate has passed 99.9%, according to research that strengthens the case for global action at the cop26 summit in glasgow.. the degree of scientific certainty about the impact of greenhouse gases is now similar to the level of agreement on evolution and plate tectonics, the authors say, based on a survey of nearly 90,000 climate-related studies.
this means there is practically no doubt among experts that burning fossil fuels, such as oil, gas, coal, peat and trees, is heating the planet and causing more extreme weather.. a previous survey in 2013 showed 97% of studies published between 1991 and 2012 supported the idea that human activities are altering earth’s climate.. this has been updated and expanded by the study by cornell university that shows the tiny minority of sceptical voices has diminished to almost nothing as evidence mounts of the link between fossil-fuel burning and climate disruption.. the latest survey of peer-reviewed literature published from 2012 to november 2020 was conducted in two stages.
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Disillusioned JW
I sadly agree with what cantleave's says at https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/187023/climate-change-threads-on-jwn-why-im-stopping-posting-on-them?page=2 , which says "Besty you did well, unfortunately people on here tend to go along with conspiracy and crackpot theories and ignore the enormous body of peer reviewed work".